Passionate feelings about power relations surround likes and dislikes of Snape/Hermione fic both in general and within the genre, as in the PtQ wars-- so far as I know, by far the longest and bloodiest battle over the content of a fic in the fandom. One thing I'd say about this, in terms of why I think S/Hr has attracted some of the fandom's best and most interesting writers, is that I actually think Snape is one of the few characters whom Hermione, as written, can't dominate. I think Hermione is often the vehicle for female readers' fantasies of omnipotence (yes, we have them), and as such carries the threat of obliterating the other (cf
One of the ironies of S/Hr is that (if we view them as psychologically real), Hermione has one of the strongest, most integrated selves in the books, and Snape (as of OotP especially) one of the weakest (hence his extreme, self-fulfilling terror of humiliation -- not bathing being an expression of the "self-fulfilling" part-- and his acquisition of Occlumency as a way to protect a fragile core). So that his age and position of authority relative to Hermione (which can never be outrun by "aging-up" the characters, since she builds her identity around her intellectual accomplishments and he was her teacher for 7 formative years) actually balance Hermione's intrinsic superiority in terms of psychological strength.
Having said that, though, I notice I'm drawing on OotP, and the golden age of Snape/Hermione fic was pretty clearly between GoF and OotP (we need a nickname for that period!), when the stock narrative function of the tortured, secretly virtuous Romantic hero was so available to Snape, in spite of his behavior in PoA. But if we look at the horror, in Snape/Hermione fandom, of Hermione/Ron, I think we see a sense of a subject without an object. There's a a lot more to be said about the fantasy of unique understanding (no one understands Hermione except Snape and vice versa--you get it in Snape/Harry and Snape/Black as well), and maybe the unhealthy self-psychological implications of that are what canon rebels against--everyone understands Ron except Hermione, and vice versa.
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I think all the Hermione fics I really love are Snape/Hermione, though some of those that are by famous slashers, interestingly enough, don't push my Hermione buttons, even when I admire them and enjoy them as narratives. Hermione often seems very cold to me in fics by slashers, whether in S/Hr or as a supporting character. I prefer the works of Snape/Hermione specialists, as a rule.
I'll admit I have a thing for the Romance template everyone mocks, of Snape being the only one who appreciates Hermione (in canon, it often does seem like no one does, like her 'professional' achievements come at the cost of being recognized as sexual - GoF - or even as a friend -PS; and in OotP, JKR just backs off the character to make her socially acceptable- Kalina called her "Dear Abby with a wand.") There's this wonderful moment toward the end of Kalina's (
Kaz's Falling Further In is one of the fics I'm working on an essay about for
Fics mentioned here:
Kaz (or KazVL)'s Falling Further In. Unfinished and likely to remain so, but still about 250,000 words. R.
Kalina's The Buried Life. R. Novel-length. My review of Kalina's fics.
Isis's "Four Funerals and a Wedding".
March 31 2004, 13:09:54 UTC 8 years ago
kudos!
I liked this very much, particularly your main point about the relative psychological strengths of the characters. Just some quick thoughts in response (keep in mind that I'm primarily a slash fan):Arsenic Jade's "Origins of Myth" has (an idealized) version of the Snape/Hermione relationship (as a side story) that clearly demonstrates her as the more psychologically whole character.
http://www.mediageek.ca/arsenicjade/wri
Of the few SS/HG that I know,
I also have an appreciation for the dynamic in La Guerra's Summon the Lambs to the Slaughter which contrasts Snape with a physically damaged yet psychologically robust(twisted, yes, but resilient as heck) OFC.
It's been awhile since I've looked at Resmiranda's SS/HG stories. I remember liking the first one, despite the Jane Eyre-ish treatment of the Snape/Hermione relationship. (Or maybe because of it--I've been known to have low standards when any h/c dynamic is involved.)
It also seems to me that much slash fanon with Snape remakes Snape into a psychologically stronger person than canon-Snape. There are few stories that have successfully paired a psychologically damaged (imho, canon-accurate,) Snape with another damaged/weakened character. Those that do it well are spectacular. Telanu's A Wizard Song (but not the previous stories in the series) comes to mind, as do some of Fabula Rasa's Snape/Black stories.
I'm looking forward to your upcoming discussion of
Great essay--you certainly got me thinking!
March 31 2004, 13:55:21 UTC 8 years ago
Re: kudos!
Thank you so much, both for the compliment and the thoughtful comments! ::shakes your hand::::interrupts self::
SQUEE! Wyatt journal title! squee! squee! My favoritest poem practically in the world! ::glomp::
/interruption
The thing I'd point out about The Bloody Stare of Mars -- which I definitely enjoyed -- is that it barely belongs to SS/HG in terms of that genre's internal traditions. Hermione never falls in love with Snape; in fact, it's Hermione/Ron, which tends to be a big no-no in this ship. Also- definitely post-OotP Snape. Yahtzee is very much a multi-fandom, multi-pairing ficcer, rather than a specialist. I almost think of it as showing a critical, outsider perspective on the genre. I love what Yahtzee does with Remus, btw, and his connection with Hermione, which is very real in canon.
I don't know the story by La Guerra, but it's surprising how many worthwhile Snape/OFC stories there are (i.e. any).
I'm fond of Resmiranda's "Shadows" Trilogy, which I definitely regard as a classic of the genre. I read it a long time ago, so forgive if I don't remember exactly, but I think the Arithmancy story takes off in the second volume, and that to me is the thing that really makes it special. Incredibly inventive and compelling. I think your Jane Eyre parallel is right in many ways. Of course I'd add that Jane Eyre is a great masterpiece and no insult! But the fact that Rochester needs to be blind, in the end, in order for him and Jane to be together, and Jane's mixture of ferocity and inexperience both come to mind. At the end of the whole thing Res names "Candide" as her big influence (it becomes direct homage in the last episode), which is about as far away from the 19th c romance as you can get. Res never turned her story into a romance, which I think was a strong and right choice, but I think it belongs to the mainline SS/HG tradition anyway.
I think what you say about Snape being stronger in slash than in canon is actually just as true for SS/HG (hence my waffling in the essay). And great point about AWS. Fabula Rasa is more complicated, it seems to me; you've got a very damaged Snape in some of those stories, but he's not hysterical and whiny and geeky like canon Snape. He's big and manly and sexeh and strong while he suffers -it would be interesting to compare FR's Snape w. Kaz's, who gets tortured nigh unto death every few days and still looks great in the morning. Also interesting to compare FR's fics with SS/HG because they're so romantic, so "us against the world."
March 31 2004, 16:00:26 UTC 8 years ago
Re: kudos!
SQUEE! Wyatt journal title! squee! squee! My favoritest poem practically in the world! ::glomp::Me, too. You know, you're the only person who's ever indicated that they got the reference. I hadn't thought of it as a particularly obscure poem, but, I'll confess I have it memorized, which may be an indication of my true geekhood. :)
I forgot to say that based on your essay, I'm definitely going to read Kalina's work. (Long road trip ahead--I may even print it out.)
The thing I'd point out about The Bloody Stare of Mars -- which I definitely enjoyed -- is that it barely belongs to SS/HG in terms of that genre's internal traditions.
Hmm...since I'm not a 'shipper, I hadn't thought of the story in terms of it violating genre conventions. Yahtzee's great at taking an outsider perspective. I think her Lando Calrissian Blues is a good example, funny and biting at the same time. I agree with you that Yahtzee's Lupin (and the whole prison camp thing) is outstanding.
At the end of the whole thing Res names "Candide" as her big influence (it becomes direct homage in the last episode), which is about as far away from the 19th c romance as you can get. Res never turned her story into a romance, which I think was a strong and right choice, but I think it belongs to the mainline SS/HG tradition anyway.
I'm going to have to read "Candide"! (I had a very uneven education in the classics.)
Fabula Rasa is more complicated, it seems to me; you've got a very damaged Snape in some of those stories, but he's not hysterical and whiny and geeky like canon Snape. He's big and manly and sexeh and strong while he suffers
I hadn't considered FR in terms of Sexy!Suffering!Snape--now I'm going to have to go back and reread (not such a hardship)to see if I agree. That I didn't notice it has to be a testament to her skill,(or my willingness to be swept away) since that kind of stuff usually throws me out of a story. (During a passionate sex scene on a moonlit beach, I'm the one thinking about sharp grains of sand working their way into damp, tender crevices.)
Okay, I give: I'm willing to overlook almost anything in exchange for Snape's "I love you, you little prick" speech in Cordelictus.
Still, "hysterical, whiny and geeky" will always be my favorite Snape. Nice to know that there are others out there with a similar perspective.
*trots off to read Kalina*
March 31 2004, 16:20:57 UTC 8 years ago
Re: kudos!
Just to be clear- I'm not criticising Fabula *at all*-- she is the ficcer than whom there is no greater, in my book.Also I wouldn't call myself a "shipper"- really not. But I've read enough ss/hg to have a sense of how it looks from that perspective.
March 31 2004, 16:32:37 UTC 8 years ago
Re: kudos!
Also I wouldn't call myself a "shipper"- really not. But I've read enough ss/hg to have a sense of how it looks from that perspective.That's what I meant, truly. I'm kind of a fannish old-timer, and I remember the days when shipping meant the relationship you preferred to think/read about--without the OMG!My OTP4EVAH!!! connotation the term has in some corners of current fandom.
April 1 2004, 11:13:16 UTC 8 years ago
Re: kudos!
A coin from the one who *hates* (yes, showing off, there are no pairings I really hate, there are stories I find inconvincing) the ship.You know, you will most likely make me accept it. At least I'm going to read the stories you talked about.
Resmiranda's trilogy didn't work for me at all. Why? Because of the "omnipotent" Hermione. It's the very thing when I write as a comment:
"Where's Harry?"
"What Harry?"
"You know, Harry, The Boy Who Lived. Huh?"
"Ah, now I'm remembering, there was somebody like this. And what with The Boy Who Lived?"
"Erm, he was supposed to save them all."
"Really? I'm sure it was supposed to be this great girl."
Besides, in my opinion, all that Arithmancy business was hugely overdone. There's no tiniest scent of canon left. Though, I liked the first novel of the trilogy.
Generally, it's the main thing that averts me from the ship: too many stories are either mary-sueish or with onmipotent Hermione (which is also Mary-Sue in some respect); too often canon is forgotten. I often like Hermione as a side-character in Harry/smb else slash stories.
So, back to the point of who is going to dominate whom in SS/HrG, I still haven't read a story which I would find persuasive. But I somehow believed in them in already mentioned Arsenic Jade's "Origins of Myth", maybe because of the type of narration.
I'm very glad that you are going to write about Through a Glass Darkly, I'll be waiting - when I read the story, I was absolutely restless because I wanted to discuss it with somebody!
April 1 2004, 11:25:33 UTC 8 years ago
Re: kudos!
But why *shouldn't* people write stories where Hermione is the hero? I mean that's part of the point of fan fiction, it seems to me-- to try out these kinds of changes. My first question about the HP books was, ok, this is the 21st century, the author is female, Hermione is the best at magic and the most intelligent-- why can't she be the hero? So I was delighted when I found stories where she was.Stories that move far from canon in terms of plot (e.g. Arithmancy in Res)- sometimes I love it and sometimes I don't. I love Mirror of Maybe, for example, in spite of its long-windedness. The distance from canon doesn't bother me at all. Whereas in some other stories I'm like, huh? what's this got to do with HP? I think the author has to rely more on her own skills in those cases.
I have no idea whether either of the stories I mentioned will appeal to you: I love both FFI and TBL, but they're very different both from each other and from most slash.
Thanks for your comments!
April 1 2004, 14:45:56 UTC 8 years ago
Stories that move far from canon in terms of plot (e.g. Arithmancy in Res)- sometimes I love it and sometimes I don't. I love Mirror of Maybe, for example, in spite of its long-windedness. The distance from canon doesn't bother me at all.
I also love MoM, and I like the first story in the Shadows Trilogy. But look, maybe here we face the problem of AU? MoM while it's not a 'pure' AU (like the model 'Harry was sorted in Slytherin' or 'Black was the real secret-keeper') is "very AU" while Shadows isn't. AU assumes that you can say 'to hell with canon' and read and enjoy whatever an author's fantasy can offer while you still pay attention to how smth is credible in canon sense if an author spent enough time to ground her universe and make characters believable. In Shadows Resmiranda did it but the further the farther (sorry) it flies away. I often has such an impression that an author was too much caught in her fantasy and the story just drifted away.
My first question about the HP books was, ok, this is the 21st century, the author is female, Hermione is the best at magic and the most intelligent-- why can't she be the hero?
But really, why not. Maybe, she's too good to be the real main hero? I'm dreaming, together with thousands of slashers, that Harry will come out of the closet. It doesn't hurt to dream, er?
Do you read a lot of SS/Hr? Could you rec a story where their dominance urges are in credible and complicated balance? Where Snape isn't a miserable bastard who is led out of his misery by the only understanding soul i.e. HrG and where she isn't a Superwoman (as in Superman)?
April 1 2004, 16:27:32 UTC 8 years ago
That's *exactly* what I've ended up thinking. I mean I don't have it all worked out yet. But look at all the handicaps and suffering JKR had to give Harry. Having her avatar (she's often said she identifies with Hermione) off center may leave her free to make Hermione so accomplished and confident.
I have to think more about the AU. I think you're on to something... of course I'm going to write about Lexin next so that'll be another opportunity to discuss. I see I missed your essay on Josan! Must go back to that.
Um, recs. Well, the two I mentioned are my favorites. I haven't read any HG/SS in a long time, and though I read through a whole lot of long novels in it at one time there aren't really that many I'd recommend. I would mention Kaz's short story "Who by Fire", which is extremely good and in the same universe as FFI. FFI is very long, so if you still want more after that I'll put my thinking cap on. I also absolutely adore TextualSphinx's "A Decoding of the Heart" (her famous shorts "Letter from Exile One Merciful Morning" and "Why Slytherins Are Sexier" are both part of it)--a very earky one, said to be only the second SS/HG fic when she started publishing it. It's just fragments though. I liked Abby's "The Other Side of Darkness" pretty well, too.
I was really just talking about what I think is the appeal of the pairing, why I think so many people who are into Hermione write and/or read this pairing, rather than claiming that the genre had many-or any- fics that live up to this ideal. There were a lot of fics in that genre that I didn't like much but that fascinated me anyway.
April 3 2004, 15:51:54 UTC 8 years ago
yes, as a direction, not as the final point. I liked this idea of yours.
Thanks for the recs, now it's time for me to read :) Thanks!